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Post by starborn on Dec 29, 2006 18:07:43 GMT -3
a curb because i ride western and BTW/FYI there are no certified coaches out here only like level 3 rider and people who have done learn to teach courses. and thats for that gill
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Post by Amyy on Dec 29, 2006 18:08:57 GMT -3
i say running martingale against standing one. a running one keeps the bit on the bars of the mouth, to keep the horses head down properly and the bit in the proper place, and so they cant just run through the bit, a standing one just keeps the head down, while the running one makes progress.
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Post by Sarah P on Dec 29, 2006 18:20:42 GMT -3
Whats with everyone jumping on gadgets and all kinds of martingales? Wouldn't it be more effective to actually put the work in and get the horse doing what you want WITHOUT all the crap suggested? I don't understand the general populace's dependency on gadgets. As always, i'm saying long and low. Before you stick a horse in a 'bungee' or martingale it should be moving from its hind end well enough to support the front, and to do this you need correct muscling. Long and low when done properly gets nothing less than this. Once your horse is moving correctly then you can worry about the head, but if the horse IS indeed moving correctly it's head should be natural ly in place and not skyrocketing.
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hayley
Level 2
good times : )
Posts: 220
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Post by hayley on Dec 29, 2006 18:48:46 GMT -3
agreed sarah !
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Post by starborn on Dec 29, 2006 18:49:04 GMT -3
see she does that but she needs to get her head down and remember almost all you guys ride english i ride western.... but again thanks for the advice ill try a running martingale!
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Post by stephaniec on Dec 29, 2006 18:56:03 GMT -3
I was told to do the see saw thing, very hard, to get my horse to collect (western) and this was by a fancy clinician/trainer. So I never knew the difference either. I never kept it up cause it never worked, but like I said. I figured it was a good technique seeing where it came from. Glad it never worked for me and I stopped it.
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Post by jessicab on Dec 29, 2006 19:09:00 GMT -3
I agree with you Sarah, I mean thats the way it should be done. Keep in mind that this girl is a fairly beginner rider (no offence girlie, you just don't have any experience with training), and there is little to no good quality instruction in this area. Try to keep your cool In depth and SIMPLE basic suggestions will be most helpful; I mean, these are basically just trail horses, they MIGHT go to one or two local fun shows a year. They don't need to be working towards collection etc (ideally yes, but as I said, shes a beginner... nowhere near being ready to ride at that level), but some tips on how to get the mare moving better and even tips on how to ride more properly would only do good! I also agree about the gadgets, I mean a running martingale probably won't hurt if its used properly (with a horse that has learned to evade the bit by throwing their head up and evading the pressure on their bars, a running martingale will help by redirecting the pressure back onto the bars of their mouth when they raise their head). But I don't like standing martingales, or tie downs in the case of a western horse; if you have to TIE your horses head down to keep it from flying up in the air, you've got bigger problems than just "headset" issues. StarBorn: if you are SERIOUS about bringing this old trail mare around, you're going to need to ride her consistently and effectively. I would bring her back into a mild snaffle and just ride her FORWARD in the arena. Just keep light contact with her mouth, follow softly with your hands and push her FORWARD. Do lots of circles and surpentines etc etc to get her thinking about carrying herself upright (no dropping in with her shoulders). Once shes moving out and working up through her back and off her hindquarters her head should come down to a natural relaxed position. She will stretch out and seek your light supportive contact, which will "harness" this forward energy and she will eventually ride INTO and ONTO the bit. Only when she is softly carrying herself properly in the snaffle and working will off of leg and seat cues should you transition her into a curb bit. Working on "headset" or "frame" (ack) in a CURB with an older trail horse that has no idea about yielding softly to pressure is going to get you nowhere fast, and you will only run into other resistances down the road. Like rearing. Good luck! Theres LOADS of information out there if you only seek it out...!
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hayley
Level 2
good times : )
Posts: 220
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Post by hayley on Dec 29, 2006 19:11:40 GMT -3
snow plowing as in keeping your hands ( reins ) on your thighs. i still kinda don't get that sorry im not really fimilar with snowplowing so do you just pretty much pull on the mouth the whole time , and not release or anything ? haha can someone help me out wiht this ?
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Joan
Level 3
*Queen Of Hearts**
Posts: 765
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Post by Joan on Dec 29, 2006 19:13:59 GMT -3
yess i agree with Sarh on this one, i feel(not that i have much experience in this,nor do i have any western experience)that is is important to get you an you horse long and low,martingales and this are great but they sometime not all the time will do it for you, it is great for them to do it but i feel it is better to do it together both parteners working equally. With any riding long and low is a great way to start...just my opinion, but ppl can specify more
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Post by jessicab on Dec 29, 2006 19:18:05 GMT -3
hayley: in short, yes Alot of western trainers preach this; basically you "set" your reins with your hands wide and low, say on your thighs and just hold it until the horse basically ducks behind the bit to avoid the pressure. You are then supposed to release. Eventually your horse will naturally carry himself with this headset, on a loose rein. Obviously there are many problems with this method. It totally doesn't address the source of the "headset" problem, which is how the horse is carrying itself. So basically you end up with a bunch of horses hauling themselves around on their forehand with their neck curled and their nose tucked in. Also, theres a HUGE tendency for the horses to start ducking away from bit pressure, which really sucks when you try to slow your horse, back your horse, turn your horse, stop your horse... basically when you try to ride A horse btv is dangerous, imo. All of us west-coasters were taught to do this by certain western instructors, (actually, by numerous western instructors) and I think its mainly a western thing although Im sure theres crappy english instruction out there too. Us poor isolated horse lovers don't have a chance ;D
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hayley
Level 2
good times : )
Posts: 220
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Post by hayley on Dec 29, 2006 19:22:02 GMT -3
ohh i get it now , haha thank-you
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Post by happilyeverafter on Dec 29, 2006 19:38:12 GMT -3
Loads of crappy english instruction. Its brutal. I hear you, girl. The only certified coach I ever had was/is Liz who is my most recent coach, at King Ranch. Certification is irrelevant, really (IMO), as long as the person knows what they're talking about I'd follow Jess's advice and go back to a good old snaffle, until both of you are ready for the curb!! The snaffle is such an old faithful! As for the gadgets and stuff, some horses just need the extra ...support? (dunno what the word I'm looking for is) Holly, Alysha's first mare, is a prime example. Amazing horse, talented and responsive, but for whatever reason she was ridden, a fair bit of the time, in a bungee or a martingale. I can think of other horses who go around with their heads cranked in the air and should have a martingale put on....because its quite obvious that the rider isnt getting anywhere by doing it "the right way".Just because a 'gadget' is put on a horse dosent mean you let it do all the work. I rode the beast in a martingale for 2 months [in the beginning] simply because it helped with her head tossing, while we were still adjusting to each other. It was *dangerous* in that situation because she came close to smacking me in the face (with her own face) a number of times. Like other posters have mentioned, the horse is only a trail horse and is no where near ready to be ridden collected, and may never even need to worry about being "on the bit". I agree with Jess, simple basic suggestions are going to be most helpful here. Like i stated previously, do lots of figures (circles, serpentines - like jess mentioned- figure 8's, shallow loops...anything you can think of! Just get her moving around and keep her brain active), do lots of transitions! Dont know you as a rider, but if you and the horse are able, get a friend to set up some trot poles and work over them a few times....this will help steady your mare because she will have to think about not stepping on the poles and falling on her face You could even make a little pattern out of it for fun!! Perhaps I'll make up some diagrams for you- because I have nothing else to do
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Post by Michelle on Dec 29, 2006 19:43:21 GMT -3
I was just about to say something, but Sarah P and Jessica got to it before me.
If you want your horse to 'put its head down', you have to make sure that their hindquarters and engaged and that they are round through their back. If you achieve this, your horse will probally put their head down themselves. If a horse is NOT engaged and is NOT round through its back it would be very uncomfortable for them to have thier faces pulled on to 'get their head down'! Even if you get your horse to put its head down by seasawing, chances are you are doing ALOT of harm to them then better. Their back would be hollowed out and they will, over time, start having back problems. People do this and then say, 'I dont know why my horse can't have thier back touched, i ride them properly" bull sh*t. It makes me so angry when I go to shows and hear people talking and saying 'look how nice that horse is. he/she is framing' but in actual fact the horse is completely hollowed out through its back. Makes me sick, id rather my horse have his head held naturally thean in a frame with his back hollowed out!
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Post by Pony Pony Pony on Dec 29, 2006 20:07:56 GMT -3
Ho hum girls, who here has actually seen Star Born ride and use this "snow plow?" Putting your hands low to get the horse's attention isn't a crime. I know I'm going to attract some e-anger with this, but lets stop the fake fuming... aka "someone hold me back" ...
From personal experience of being in charge of a barn of 20 horses and getting them all to listen to children I know that sometimes you use unconventional methods to get a horse to listen and focus.
It's a computer screen... the extent of your emotion only goes as far as an emoticon can take it...
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Post by Sarah on Dec 29, 2006 20:29:34 GMT -3
Ho hum girls, who here has actually seen Star Born ride and use this "snow plow?" Putting your hands low to get the horse's attention isn't a crime. I know I'm going to attract some e-anger with this, but lets stop the fake fuming... aka "someone hold me back" ... From personal experience of being in charge of a barn of 20 horses and getting them all to listen to children I know that sometimes you use unconventional methods to get a horse to listen and focus. It's a computer screen... the extent of your emotion only goes as far as an emoticon can take it... thank you! as i said early ;; amanda didnt seem to be hurting star at all, and was instructed to use this techinque by the horse's owner, Amanda Langdon. If she knew that this could hurt star then i know she wouldnt have done this, she was simply doing what a good student does, listening to her coach.
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