Poet

[Emily C]

"I'm not really trying to change him out of it, just more so I want him to be able to trot too, as it's needed for the show ring."

I hate to be the "mean" one here..but why would you buy a gaited rocky mountain horse..a champion at that..if you don't want the gait?

[Danielle]

I was told eventually I'd eventually be able get him to trot and that he'd make a nice show horse. I really want both gaits, even if his racking is the one he prefers.

[oxmaybesoxo]

He's a beautiful boy and sounds like he is quite the handful! Hes lucky to have someone who can put a lot of time in on him

Off topic but if you do own a gated horse and want to show is it necessary for them to trot or can the judge recognize that they are gated and allow the horse to move the way its suppose too?

[Danielle]

I think it would depend on the judge, and the show. The only shows I know of that he could rack instead would be specififc Rocky Mountain horse shows. But I think for the most part he would have to trot at the Newfoundland shows.

[jpoole]

Glad to hear you two are progressing!
Just as a word of caution, watch him with his "pushyness", I was the only other boarder at his previous barn when he arrived in NL and I still board there. In my opinion he needs very consistant, strict handling. He needs a dominant owner/handler/rider that won't let him get away with his crap. Like you said, he's completely sure he's still a stud and no one can tell him what to do. I've brought him in and out before, I know what you mean, and I don't mean any of this in a mean way. Just EVERY time he pushes ahead of you, into you, acts up, etc. Whether its minor misbehaviour or major, make sure you correct it, the more he gets away with the more he tries.
Ha I'm really not trying to be as negative as that sounds, but thats my honest opinion of him and I've known him since he's arrived here. Even if it seems negative I think its better to know the truth/past, to know what your working with. He's a pretty boy and with the right training and handling he could be a lovely show horse. I think his attitude, you being totally in control and safe, will be your first hurdle, then move on to getting ready to show/troting/etc.

[Danielle]

We've been working on control a lot, at a walk eith a bit of racking and the occasional canter. But the more firm I get, the more he fights me. It's pretty tough, he's ducking and side stepping and even let out a little buck today. But he is coming along, he's slowly learning who's boss. Thanks for the help and advice everyone, it's really really useful!

[leila]

RE: "if you do own a gated horse and want to show is it necessary for them to trot or can the judge recognize that they are gated and allow the horse to move the way its suppose too"

I am pretty sure this would be like cantering when the judge asks everyone to trot, or walking when they ask everyone for a hand gallop. The only time any gaiting/racking/etc is really okay is in classes specifically for gaited horses I believe. But never in a hunter/jumper/dressage show.

[Kayla D]

i'm sorry, but if everyone can teach their STB to trot instead of pace and not get bashed for trying to change their nature, why can't someone with a RMH want them to trot? Many people here have buyed retired racing champions and then trained them to trot, so really why does anyone care? Not trying to sound snotty, but I don't like double standards.

[jpoole]

I don't think anyone really meant to say that she can't or shouldn't teach him to trot, I think the general question was moreso meant that if she bought a rmh from such excellent lines, why is she first off trying to change his most individual, bred-in feature. If I paid for a young well trained reiner and tried to teach it to jump the first week I owned it, I'm sure it would raise a few eyebrows.

As for your example with stb's I don't think the same case applies. The majority of stbs that are trained to trot are older, not able to race (due to injury, lack of speed, etc) and retired from racing, therefore being trained for a new job. In saying this, I dont think any horse should be limited to only being able to do specific things because of their breed, but if they're young and physically capable why not focus on it's known abilities, then test the possibility of other skills later or on the side.

Danielle - I'm not meaning any of this towards you or your case with poet,just answering the question as I took it, you've said your not trying to change his gait, just trying out your limits.

[Becca]

I worked with a Rocky for almost a year; and it was an absolute pleasure, she gaited as well, but trained her out of it; only time she did it was when she was confused (majority of the time, rider error, she was awesome for calling you out on a flaw, but did it ever make you aware of your riding! ) and when we first started doing canter to trot transitions, i guess it was like a comfort zone with her, but she was also young just starting undersaddle, not trained specifically to do the gait, just came natural to her but she got out of it; she was one of a kind if i could have bought her i would have in a heartbeat! i love rmh's!

till he has respect for your space (HUGE thing here) and stand still while tacking, grooming, when you ask him to back he backs, when you put pressure on him he moves away/gives to the pressure and not leans on it; i wouldn't even be riding him JMO!

first starting working with V she didn't like bridleing, so instead of trying getting it on quickley as possible and taking her to to arena and working her, i spent i think 15-20 minutes one day making bridling 'friendly' to her; i did this by making sure the bit is always warm and proper fitting, she had to bring her head down for me (SLIGHT pressure on the poll with immediate release, and treat in hand with bit), and wanting to take the bit, she quickley learned second she took the bit, she was rewarded, soon enough the smart filly was comming towards me head down looking for the bit ready to go!
now that was just one example, just because it took velv a few minutes to learn doesn't mean poet will do the same , he might, but it could take a few days maybe a week, but as long as your consistant he should catch on

same went for girthing, i didn't do it all up at once, did one hole stopped, treat, did another hole stop for few minutes, patt and treat, never did it up all the way till we were in the arena and did it up another hole or so, then i'd lunge her to get her moving, then might do it up another hole or two so it's fit to ride in, again just an example, every horse is different!

if you want him to be a show horse i think it would be better to train him to just trot, rather then confuse him and try to que him to trot AND gaite;
try getting incontact with some rocky breeders / show handlers, their might be a specific que they ask from the horses to get them to 'rack' (i think you called it??) so maybe if your leg is slipping back a little and you not knowing it, you might be asking for the 'rack' instead of just getting him to move forward? just a thought!

right now i'd focus on the ground work, after when he FULLY respects you and your space i'd work on lunging him with saddle on and making sure he's alright with all of his tack, maybe somethings ill fitting and could be reason why he's kicking out! after i'd work on mounting and dismounting, if he's squirming at that, then mount him after he stands still, sit for a few seconds and dismount and leave it at that for the day, he'll soon learn the less moving around he does the less work he has to do!

then i'd work strickly on just walk, making sure he can steer correctly(circles, serpitines, figure 8's, going down center line, letter to letter, diagonals, etc) , back up, stop (and stand still!) and give into pressure when asked (NOT framing him up, but when you ask him to give his neck for instance, it gives without a fight)

only after that, i'd work on transition up to trot; and make sure it's given properly! SLIGHTEST wrong movement and boom pace instead of trot, if you've never ridden a gaited horse before, its hard to figure out / feel on your own when the horse is pacing or when the horse is trotting (or atleast thats what i found when first riding them) but you'll catch on quickly and know when they're pacing to trotting! (i found its IMPOSSIBLE to post to the pace, compared to when they're trotting) for first few times get someone in the middle of the ring to tell you if they're gaiting or trotting, after you get that correct transition from walk to trot id hault and jump off, lots and lots of praise and leave it at that for the day; work on getting JUST ONE correct transition out of him and leave it on that good note for the day for how ever long it takes, till every time you ask him to trot he trots without gaiting first; and hopefully, he'll realize what you're asking for again the principle, doing less is more!

I'd treat poet just like i'd treat a horse just starting undersaddle, because he is so green! (atleast from what i know of his past, and what i'm hearing from this) i can see your long term goals are doing hunter/jumpers in show that's great! (and keep that in mind always ) but making little short term goals will keep you going with the greenies, every small step is a building block to your big dream!

having a green horse is difficult sometimes, realizing what they are CURRENTLY capable of, and what you currently want to do; for example if you JUST started cantering and theres a show comming up; you're SOO proud you're cantering but most likely not ready for the show ring with it; stick with the walk trot classes because it's what he already KNOWS, and will be an excellent POSITIVE exsperiance for him instead of the possibility asking for a canter and not getting it, him being a pacing mess, and getting fustrated and in a spat, etc (shows are stressful! happens to the best of us) also if theres something that he's just NOT getting, and you can't understand why, don't be afraid to ask for help! if there's a clinic comming up, take a break from what you're trying to work on (that may be fustrating to both of you) go back to what you know, get that even more perfected (which might help you out with what you're currently working on) and ask the clinician / coach / whatever or whoever how its properly done, and it could be the SLIGHTEST thing and then that awesome light bulb will flick on for both of you, and you're moved on to the next thing

I PM'd you too Danielle, I'm planning on comming out first week of april, hope to see you around!
good luck, he sure is a looker!

sorry for such the book, i'm just talking from personal exsperiance, and my love for rockys

note: i don't have a period button, thus why this is such a mess

[ridersup]

Added to jpoole's post above when comparing a pacing OTSTB to a RMH....no real comparison. A racing pace can be a b*tch to sit, a RMH's gait is not. A racing STB paces with an overcheck type head position, extreme extension and no weight on thir back. Converting them to saddle horses is a specific process designed to change musculature that has been established for years....and was never designed to include a rider.
You are lucky, he is only green and pretty!!! No race brain to untrain !!

[Rodeo]

Becca wasn't Velvet only 1/2 RMH? I don't know anything about the breed but maybe she was a little easier to train where she wasn't a full rmh. I find this little guy interesting. Looking forward to reading about his progress.

[hjcayus]

yes, Velvet is half RMH and yes she has the inbred ability to 'gait' but hers would only be half so strong as Poet's, who is out of a line of champion RMH's specifically bred to gait, and do it consistantly. IMO

[Danielle]

March 8th.

Today was spectacular. I groomed him outside for a change and he stood still after a couple minutes. We schooled alone today and he was really good! I cantered and racked him a little. He let out a little buck while cantering, he didn't like me holding him back. Then we worked on circles and figure 8s and serpentine at the walk and he behaved near perfect. He duck a couple times at the gate and top rail but for the mos part he was very well behaved

[Becca]

yes velvets only half but still had the 'rack', just like josie is half standardbred but can only pace her dad is a champion 'lucifier' in newbrunswick from horses of eden, must say she has quite the lovely quarter horse disposition and was a pleasure to work with, again loveed that mare!